Diet Debunked: The Ketogenic Diet

 
 

Check out this video recommendation…

The keto diet plan has a dark side that just couple of in the community have the guts to confront as well as it is all based upon the scientific literature.
– Links and Sources –

– @micthevegan

My Vegan Diet regimen Is Extra Paleo Than Your Paleo Diet:

Perlmutter Interview (High Intensity Health and wellness):.

Paleo Mom's Caution Web page:.

Paleo Mama's Scientific Sources:.

Deprived Brain on Ketones as well as Sugar:.

Ketogenic Diet regimen Component:.

6.7% of keto kids obtained kidney rocks:.

Kid dies on Keto Diet from Heart Attack and Pancreatitis:.

15% of keto children had enlarged hearts study:.

Sudden heart death is keto diet:.

GI disturbances, low blood healthy protein keto diet plan:.

Research with huge listing of unfavorable impacts, shortage:.

More negative effects:.

Keto blogger with ~ 300 LDL:.

SUITABLE LDL, Loren Cordain.

Vegan cholesterol degrees:.

 
 

Vegan Diet plan Turns around Cardiovascular disease Research:.

Greater Cortisol on Keto Diet plan Research:.

Keto equal to various other low carb diet in weight reduction, unfavorable impacts:.

Weight management in Obese Grownups Keto, 450 cal deficiency:.

Weight Loss in Obese Grownups Vegan, 350 cal deficiency:.

Keto Controlled Feeding Test, Much less Fat Loss, NIH:.

Expained:.

Water weight is regained when the diet finishes:.

Decreased the desire to work out on keto:.
( 07) 01475-7/ pdf.

Perlmutter Ketosis Natural State Case:.

" Eskimo on his common dietary shows no ketosis …".

" It is recognized that the mutation lowers … ketogenesis" (14) 00422-4. pdf.

Standard info on Yanomami Indians:.

Reduced Carb Diets Boost All Reason Death:.

Seizures Decreased in Children on Keto Diet:.

Ketone Supplements Increase Blood Ketones Levels:.

" In the general population, Blinten said a keto diet regimen should only be considered in extreme situations … It could harm the heart".

 
 

Comments

kez3000 says:

Sorry but your tone and your quoted medical studies both sound very bias. I watched this video hoping for educated, unbiased info about this diet. If you want viewers to believe you, you need to present the pros and cons in an unbiased manor with studies that were conducted properly. Honestly, IMO you come off sounding like you’re angry about a meat diet.

Mic. the Vegan says:

No I believe you only wanted pros for keto and want my veganism to be a reason to disregard the information, the first 5 minutes of which were copy and pasted from a meat eating Ph.D.
I mentioned that a keto diet leads to weight loss and reduces seizures. But the negative effects are outstanding. Simple example I didn’t mention, those kids with the 7% incidence of kidney stones, that is 500x the normal incidence for children! I just can’t tell people that keto diets are good and feel ethical, VEGAN KETO OR NOT.

kez3000 says:

Mic. the Vegan no, I was hoping for an unbiased review to weigh the pros and cons. It’s extremely presumptuous of you to tell me “what I want”. I don’t believe the keto diet is without hazards but I also only saw a one sided opinion in this video. My opinion is the tone of your review sounded angry and bias. It seemed like you cherry picked quotes and studies without regard for their clinical merit or credibility. I’m sorry, but that’s how your video came across to me. You make that opinion stronger by attacking me. I’m not trying to attack or offend you. I’m pointing out, as a viewer looking for information, your presentation of this subject is clearly one sided.

Mic. the Vegan says:

You say I’m biased and don’t view it as an attack, then I say you are biased and I am attacking you? Please read your statement and my statement and tell me how I am attacking you. If I was attacking you that would make it easier once again to ignore the facts I present though…

kez3000 says:

Mic. the Vegan replying that I only want keto pros and I’m using your veganism to disregard your information is a deflection and an attack. I use to be vegan, my brother is vegan and I have ZERO issues with veganism. I stand by my criticism that your info seems biased and your tone seems angry in this video. I’m sorry if you feel that’s an attack. When people give me negative feed back on my channel, I don’t view it as an attack. I view it as constrictive criticism from my audience to improve my future videos. I can see you’re to defensive for that so, I apologize for commenting on your video and I wish you the best for your channel.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

If you accuse Mic of cherry picking then please show us all the great and über convincing studies on keto that have been done. I may not be lightly swayed but I am open minded. I think the video was rather balanced.

Exotic Games says:

Okay, I can’t take this I’m having a mental breakdown. WHAT IS THE TRUTH

Science says vegan diets reverse coronary artery disease — People say keto diet reversed their heart disease

Vegan says meat is more insulinogenic than sugar and causes diabetes —- People claim to reverse diabetes on keto AND VEGANS

Vegan claims cholesterol and saturated fat cause atherosclerosis — keto claims higher cholesterol lowers mortality

Which is it??? I’m pulling my hair out this is so fucking annoying, it can’t be both ways!!
They both have science, they both have success. And every video I go to everyone argues over it and never comes to a conclusion. For every vegan argument, there is a polar opposite claim of keto. For every keto claim, there is a polar opposite claim for veganism.
I just want to know the truth and nobody can agree on ANYTHING.

Exotic Games says:

I understand what you are saying there are so many studies proving plant-based diets work, they are the only diet that has been proven to reverse heart disease and some cancers. Science is made to find out things. And when one study says saturated fat and cholesterol cause heart disease and another says higher cholesterol lowers mortality it makes no sense. I’m trying my best and I want the truth. Yes some studies can be flawed but all of them? For a keto diet or any low carb diet to work all the plant based studies would need to be wrong. And for a plant-based diet, all keto oriented studies would have to be proven false. You mention you side more with a keto diet, I personally side more with a plant based diet based on the science there is far more science showing plant-based diets are king. But I’m not saying there aren’t any for the opposite. This is why I’m confused. I’m so so so tired of arguing and seeing people argue over this. I could show someone (not necessarily you) 500 studies and I’m sure they would still argue and everyone would leave the conversation unchanged. Seriously which one is the best diet? And don’t say everyone is differently. Yes everyone has different genes and things may be different for everyone. But we are all human, we all have the same biology and meat causes cancer in one person, and not in another makes no sense.

Also do you consume red meat and processed meat? The WHO has classified red meat and processed meat as a class one and class 2b carcinogen. Or do you think those studies were rigged or something.

And you said read the criticisms for this video. Why do you think I wrote this comment? Everywhere I go I see people arguing about it, and it nver goes anywhere which is why I’,m confused. I always thought science finds conclusions so how could controlled trials find one thing and another study find the polar opposite. How can we know what is true?

My mind is not made up, I’m not ignorant or biased. I will go with whatever is truely healthy and will let me live the longest.

And before you say anything I know chlesterol doesnt cause heart disease and I have heard the fire engine at a fire analogy.

Alex Alam says:

+Exotic Games You’re kind of looking at things in black and white. I believe the reasons for the controversy is due to how complicated health and nutrition are and political pressure. No study is perfect. There will always be flaws, ways to improve a study or criticism. If science were perfect, there would be no room for improvement.

Lets start of with health and nutrition. You should know that there are a variety of different factors that influence health. These include what you eat, how much you eat, processed vs non-processed, how you cook your food (what oils do you use, frying, boiling, steaming, barbeque, oven, grilled), how the food has been raised (factory farmed, vs organic farmed or grass fed vs grain fed vs corn fed or use of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides), how much water you drink, how much sunlight you’re receiving, adequate sleep, stress, exercise (what kind and how often), how active you are throughout the day (sitting down all day long vs standing), indoor and outdoor air pollution (comparison between living in a city and rural areas), social health (relationships can affect ones physical health), exposure to radiation especially from technology (commonly used are mobile phones, microwaves, computers), genetic factors etc.

Before a study is conducted, relevant factors need to be taken into account. This is what you’ll see in the method section of any experiment. Studies can be flawed due to a missing factor, miscalculation, faulty equipment, outdated methods. For example, you might read a study that shows meat is unhealthy but if you end up reading the methods, you’ll find that they fail to distinguish between processed vs non-processed meat. You’ll find studies showing a plant based diet is healthy as opposed to an omnivore diet but in the method section, they might fail to take into account that most vegans are health conscious and this is what skews the data. People who are health conscious do not smoke or drink and they exercise a lot. You may find hundreds of papers supporting a plant based diet and you’ll also find hundreds of papers supporting an omnivore diet. This difference may due to the methods or how the data has been interpreted.

What you need to know is that not all studies are legitimate in terms of how much effort was put in. Believe it or not, there are thousands of studies being published everyday as legitimate. This is probably due to political pressure. There are government funded research labs where researchers are given strict deadlines to complete a research. For example, a proper research might take 12 months to complete but the research/s are issued a deadline of three months. If they don’t meet the deadline, they may end up losing their jobs. Hence why you see a lot of crap studies being published. Another factor that can cause a study to be flawed is funding. There is a possibility of bias when a company funds a research laboratory to create results that benefits the companies profits. There is nothing wrong with receiving money from a funding body to begin your research but if it comes from a company where they try to make a deal with you to create false results, that’s a problem.

A study may say that saturated fat and cholesterol causes heart disease but they may fail to take into account lack of exercise, inflammation or stress. These are also factors that can lead to high cholesterol levels or even heart disease. I think in general, the best diet is one with plants and animals. It has been proven that we function optimally with a diet of plants and animals. After all, we are omnivores. We’re biologically functioned to digest plants and animals. How you implement an omnivore diet, I don’t believe there is a “best diet” for everyone.

I do not consume processed meat. I try my best to find organic or grassfed animal products. I’m doing a lifestyle called intermittent fasting and implementing a ketogenic diet. Whenever it’s difficult to continue a ketogenic diet due to availability of food or time it takes to cook I switch to a low carb high fat diet. To know which study is true and which is false, you have to actually take the time to read and criticise the paper yourself. It’s not easy since not everyone is motivated to read so many papers. People these days just want answers. If you want to live the longest life, try following the example of people who have the oldest life expectancy in the world like the Japanese people. Have a look into their lifestyle.

Exotic Games says:

Thanks for your input, despite all you wrote you haven’t disproved the effectiveness of a plant-based diet or proven the effectiveness of a keto diet. My point still stands, it can’t go both ways, either animal products cause heart disease and cancer, or they don’t don’t. If that’s black and white then fine. Yes right there are many many many factors, but when you have thousands and thousands of independent peer reviewed studies all showing the exact same results, somebody needs to step up and say this can’t be a coincidence. And saying it might work for some isn’t good enough. Our bodies and organs and metabolic processes are the same, genes won’t dictate things like this. “I don’t believe there is a “best diet” for everyone.”

Do you believe there is a best diet for gorillas? Chimpanzees, Elephants, lions? Humans are the only species on the planet that can’t decide what to eat. We may be the most intelligent, but when it comes to diet we are the stupidest species there is.

Just out of curiosity what do you think of the paleo diet, which is quite similar to keto?

Alex Alam says:

+Exotic Games My point was not to prove a keto diet is effective and disprove a plant based diet but to explain why there’s a difference in views. I’ll disprove to you quickly why animal products do not cause heart disease and cancer. You must always ask yourself, does that statement make sense from a historical standpoint based on our distant ancestors. Our ancestors have always consumed animal products and they never suffered from a cancer epidemic, obesity epidemic, increase incidence of heart disease etc. Do you think it makes sense to blame old food or old nutrients for new diseases or increased incidence of diseases that occurred in the 20th – 21st century?

Humans are rational animals. We have the ability to reason with our instincts. This allowed us to change the environment we live in to suit our needs and to live in different environments around the world which animals are unable to do (animals stay in one place). I think this led to a difference in lifestyle which requires time to adapt to hence why I don’t think there is a best diet. If all humans lived together in the same environment and the same condition then maybe there would be a best diet.

I can only tell you what I think of a paleo and keto diet.
I think the paleo diet is more of a lifestyle choice since its focused around eating like the early humans. Elimination of certain foods like grains and potatoes is based on the fact that our early humans did not consume them. It definitely has health benefits for those who are able to adapt but I think it also requires a change in the overall lifestyle to be able to fully benefit. You can’t just eat a paleo diet and live an asocial and sedentary lifestyle. You must be able to move like our early humans did.

I think the ketogenic diet is also a lifestyle choice for people who don’t believe that we need to consume sugars or lots of carbohydrates as they are not essential and it was a diet that our ancestors thrived on. Elimination of certain foods like bread, pasta and other high carb vegetables (except for leafy greens) is based on focusing the body to burn fat (dietary and body fat) instead of carbohydrates.

Liz Lee says:

The truth is there is too much political pressure hat comes from the diet industry, the food industry and the exercise industry that is riding on the answer.

And it could be. A new theory is that people’s racial makeup may play a factor. As equatorial countries with tropical fruit don’t need to eat grain and can’t easily hunt and store meat. Thus they are better adapted to fruit and grain diets.
While people who live in the upper regions such as the poles needed to hunt and have several months of meat storage a year and got their calories from dried foods roots and pickles. They could hunt elk, buffalo seals, whales cows. So they do better with more meat and have smaller appetites to accomodate.
It sounds racist at first but makes sense as human beings live in a variety of climates and have a variety of traditional diets.
Even a few thousand years of eating beans and rice would alter our DNA. Or cows or eggs.
I think it is damn clear that some foods are more nutritious then others. And the cheapest versions of those foods end up to the poor.
So that the rich could feed them cheaply to exploit them for labor. And this has been a processe of millenia not just centuries.
Or it could bee neomarxist twaddle.
To assume you know the mind of a peasant living in a wartorn country a thousand years ago is silly.

I do defend their have been a lot of interesting experiments on Diet in our century. Including one of the most effective campaigns for a whole foods diet, the Rationing in WW@, where the country forced the population on a 80% vegetarian diet. And it actually did well despite the mental privations of its people. The weird thing is you never hear Vgetarians talk about that.

The point is I don’t think its wrong to not have all the answers. And you should try both diets and pick the one that fits your lifestyle sadly. Its your experiment. And only you are accountable.

Alex Roberts says:

You look sick mate you should get some red meat in your diet!

Brian Tristam Williams says:

+Siegfried throws out a straw man, twisting words that were never said, then wants to talk about logic like he’s the town’s philosopher. LOL

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

+Brian Tristam Williams You again? You’re outdated. We’ve moved on. No time for fools.

Вера Надежда says:

You can’t deny he looks quite pale, like a vampire.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

Where I live being fair is considered a beauty asset.
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p640x640/16228565_1754460251549163_1489750148677369856_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTQ0MjE3MjAzMzczODk3NTAzMQ%3D%3D.2
Jimmy Moore low-carb pusher has a lean figure and healthy glow, right? Has only been low-carb for 13 years.
http://bloggfiler.no/lavkarboliv.blogg.no/images/915762-10-1312663422441.jpg
On the left here a low-carb researcher and advocate. Healthy posture.

I have diabeetus says:

He doesn’t want clogged up arteries or cancer

Healthful Pursuit - The Keto Diet says:

Hey Buddy – I love your enthusiasm, and would be more than happy to come on your show to chat all things keto.

0:30 First off, the state of ketosis isn’t a “starvation state” it can be referred to as a metabolic state, opposite of a glucose-burning state, but is VERY far away from starvation. The body would have to burn through much of its fat stores, and protein stores before a starvation state would occur.

1:28 Sadly, the “well design studies” for ketosis were primarily focused on sick children. Therefore, it’s hard to correlate results with what would occur in a healthy adult.

1:35 I’ve coached many of my vegan clients into a ketogenic state, so I totally value a “vegans opinion”. I used to be one, so we’re cool.

2:55 Some of the symptoms you mention are symptoms of becoming fat adapted. Not going to lie, the transition is HARD, but once you get over the hump, it’s amazing! And, rats are not people.

3:11 Keto acidosis cannot happen in a non-diabetic individual

5:28 research has proven that eggs and oil are not bad for us. Please read “The Big Fat Surprise”

5:33 High cholesterol doesn’t mean issues with health. My cholesterol had to get to 500 in order for me to get my period back. High cholesterol is not BAD. Again, please read current papers. When I went on a plant-based diet I lost my period… for 8 years.

7:37 Wait, do I have keto eyes? Naw…

and on, and on…

8:03 I used a keto diet to:
1) get my period back (I did after 1.5 years)
2) lose 12% body fat (in 2 months)
3) lower anxiety
4) improve mood
5) eat more (I eat about 3,500 calories a day)
6) boost athletic performance
7) abolish brain fog
8) end my eating disorder (I’ve been ED free for 452 days)
9) increase muscle mass
10) regulate sex hormones
11) become fertile (I ovulate every 29 days now)
12) clear my acne
13) improve digestive function

All in all, you can say MANY of these same things against a vegan diet. I get what you’re trying to do here, but it’s unfortunate that you didn’t look at all angles. It was the same issue with Sara’s blog post against the ketogenic diet, it was all about epileptic children. We cannot compare what an epileptic child experiences on a 4 to 1 ketogenic diet to what a 30-something healthy male or female would experience.

I could go on and on but I won’t. All I’d like to end with is that – the vegan diet is good, the keto diet is good, all eating styles CAN be good for the individual. We have to be open to the fact that we’re all different, and sadly your video didn’t do a very good job with this.

Again, would love to have a conversation with you about it!

J Tonucci says:

fbz I’m not sure what the data on LDL and HDL are and how it pertains to the vegan diet. But I do agree with one thing you are saying. Vegans automatically refuse to hear anything that someone has to say as to why their diet might not be the best. They are very stuck in their ways and refuse to hear any info. Maybe I shouldn’t generalize. But every vegan I’ve ever met is completely stubborn and won’t hear anything I try to tell them. I know this because the minute I find out someone’s a vegan I always tell them I think their diet is wrong. I feel it is not natural. It’s not how we evolved to eat. People love to point out our jaw lines and our intestines. Although our intestines are longer than carnivores they are shorter than herbivores. As for our jawline we didn’t always eat meat. Studies seem to say anywhere between 1.5 million and 2.5 million years ago we started eating meat. So it would make sense that we don’t have one hundred percent the traits of a meat eater. And who knows why we adapted to eating meat. Was there a shortage of the plants we were eating? Or was it something else? Whatever it was for some reason evoloution took its course and we started eating meat. No we don’t have giant canines like other meat eaters. But we do have canines where is most herbivores do not. We only needed them to be so big though. We were never a species that chased after our prey and grab it with our teeth and tore it apart. We stand upright. We evolve to have larger brains and are the only species that made weapons to hunt and tools to eat with. Teeth capable of chomping down on prey and tearing it apart weren’t necessary. I listen to the arguments on our jaw lines. And our intestines. And I’m not saying that my opinion is 100% correct. Maybe I’m wrong. But I’ve yet to meet a vegan that will even consider the possibility that maybe eating animal products is more healthy for us after millions of years of evolution and adapting to a meat diet.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

Appeal to nature fallacy. Reading, brushing your teeth, We develop heart disease when we eat meat. Maybe vegans are stubborn because all you have is idiotic appeal to nature fallacies and links that contradict you.

J Tonucci says:

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch I told you I was done having a conversation with you so I don’t know why you keep talking to me. If you want to be vegan suit yourself. Your convinced your opinions are 100 percent right like every vegan I’ve ever met. Maybe one day I’ll meet one that is actually open minded. That definitely wouldn’t be you.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

You keep commenting even though your own links debunk what you say. No one will be open minded when your logic is inherently flawed.

mike393000 says:

theres no point… hes a hater.. he takes examples from people obviously not doing the diet right and using it as the norm… many of these abnormalities could be cured on the diet by drinking more water… Hes like yelling at us… Stop being so angry…

Karl Wiley says:

I’m reposting a comment by Aluke Vellinga that was deleted by either Aluke or Mic…

“If you would actually read the studies you cite, you would know they don’t prove anything you claim and are not applicable to the diet as it is advocated to the public. The diets that result in negative health outcomes are horrible diets with processed foods and are too high in fat and too low in protein for children to grow and be healthy. Most studies are too short, your body needs weeks to change enzymes, gene expression, methylation statuses, etcetera in order to rearrange metabolism and reap the full benefits of ketosis. Other studies you cite have a cut-off for low-carb at 30 or even higher percentages. That’s not even near keto, therefore, not applicable again.
The whole saturated fat and cholesterol story is debunked already. Your argument is invalid. “acidified state” is a myth, never proven by any study. And if you mean ketoacidosis, that does not occur in any healthy individual without type I diabetes. Which is pretty much everyone.
Any study showing detrimental effects of animal protein is observational, therefore complete garbage. Moreover, only processed meats show slightly meaningful correlations. By lowering inflammation (yes proper keto diets do this) and lowering blood glucose you reduce the chance of LDL being oxidised or glycated, therefore lower your risk of heart disease. TG are a greater predictor of heart disease risk, TGs drop enormously on a KD. Saturated fat in the blood may in fact be dangerous, but guess what raises SF in the blood? CARBS! Not fat, not even saturated fat in the diet IF you are in ketosis.
A complete scientific board with a large amount of scientists with various beliefs in Sweden has been studying lchf and have declared it to be safe and an efficient weight loss tool.
Your argument on people eating carbs all around the globe, therefore we are not meant to be in ketosis is simply ridiculous. When not eating truckloads of carbs, simply fasting for less than 24 hours already puts your body into ketosis. Just think for a second how often that would have happened during evolution. Exactly! ALL THE TIME! Default metabolic state = fat oxidation and pretty often that involved ketones.
Starvation mode is a myth as well. Dietary ketosis has much lower ketone values than starvation ketosis. This only happens in prolonged calorie restriction. Ketone oxidation produces less radical oxygen species. Therefore it’s a cleaner fuel than glucose.
According to evidence, the human brain has evolved to be massively larger than other primates or offspring of common ancestors from the moment we started hunting animals.
Children are in a mild state of ketosis throughout breastfeeding are are found to be in mild ketosis after an overnight fast.
I’m not going to cite the studies of above mentioned claims, cause you won’t read them properly anyway and I’m not wasting any of my time.”

Beckdaddy Films says:

awesome how passionate the ketos are about their diet. look at all that fire! i guess you really have to believe it if youre willing to starve yourself in this day and age. just surprised they have the energy to type on the keyboard with all the depleted glycogen stores. maybe that explains why they all sound like little kids who just got denied their precious candy bars

Karl Wiley says:

Candy bars are vegan… And I far from starve. I eat very well, have great biomarkers and feel amazing. My energy levels are consistent because I don’t rely on glycogen for fuel. My brain runs fine on ketones. I eat when I’m hungry and can effortlessly go 18-24hrs without food because my body has adapted to running off of an alternative fuel source.

Curious what your diet is like. Not that I really care, I’m just surprised you’re trying to attack a way of eating that helps so many people and has science to back it up. Keto eaters can base their eating choices on science, while Veganism is more of a belief system. You can’t scientifically back up the fact that we shouldn’t eat animal products for moral reasons; yet we’re fine to eat a twix.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

Most candy bars aren’t vegan.
Let’s look at the science behind keto: people develop heart disease, kidney damage, arterial damage due to methylglyoxal.
Vegan science: reversed heart disease, reversing cancer.
You’re completely ignorant about the science. Show me ONE study of keto reversing heart disease.

Darren Smith says:

Karl Wiley read “The Obesity Code” written by Jason Fung, MD. This shows how little science was actually used to determine what people have been told to eat among many other proven scientific facts and studies that debunk traditional “nutrition.”

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

You should be more skeptical about skeptics. Jason Fung is a quack. The science used by the guidelines is far superior to that used by low-carb gurus.

Robert Kuhar says:

43 seconds in and you are already wrong about how ketosis works 🙁

A few of the studies you researched are with diets containing processed meats. I will not argue with you, they do cause harm. THAT BEING SAID meaningful correlations can be found by lowering inflammation through a proper keto diet. This will lower blood glucose and reduce LDL oxidisation.

Processed meats are bad – agreed
Other studies you cited: The dangers of saturated fat are real WHEN PRESENT IN THE BLOOD STREAM what causes this you ask? Insulin. Produced by the pancreas to regulate blood sugar.
Saturated fat in the diet while in ketosis with *no insulin* present in the bloodstream does not cause heart problems and is shown since the 20’s to lower risk.

Saturated fats are bad – agreed (when eating carbs as well)

This is documented well. It is crucial to differentiate the studies based on those who are observed eating high fat and *low carbs* with those eating healthy fats and *no carbs * (aka no insulin production) there are huge differences and both were labelled as “keto” in this video. Please do not clump together results to make it fit your youtube channel.

Don’t simplify such a complicated subjects. When executed properly this diet can be used to save lives of insulin sensitive people.

Sqze says:

+barry hacklem
If you pee ketones it is because your body doesn’t use them well aka you are not well adapted for fat/ketone burning.
Just to make sure you understand:
When you are doing keto and highly adapted you use ketones for muscle fuel (also when pushing your body hard) and not glycogen and you do not pee much ketones or have “acetone” breath.

barry hacklem says:

Sqze, that’s not the way I understand it. I have strips that I stick in my pee (you pee in a cup, like a drug test lol) and it turns colors to measure ketones. I don’t know about all of them but with mine if your strip turns dark purple you’re in full ketosis. Of course some people complain about the accuracy of urine tests, however all I was looking for was a ballpark figure. There is some things that will give you a false positive though so you got to be careful. Like eating any sort of coconut. Coconut will produce ketones even if you’re eating a really high carb diet.

barry hacklem says:

I eat plenty of fat, so fat adaptation really shouldn’t be a problem for me.

Sqze says:

+barry hacklem

Fat adaption as in burning ketones effectively for fuel requires both really low carb and high fat. When well adapter you can do ketones for fuel with low carb and low fat, low carb and high fat but still not high fat and even with moderate carbs!

The only way to measure if you have truly adapted is through blood test, blood sugar and blood ketones.

And yes it is correct that you can be in “ketosis” as your strip says but not in clinical highly adapted ketosis where you effectively use ketones for fuel.

Ketones measured in breath or urine is ketones that the body doesn’t really know what to do with, it cant use them for fuel so it gets rid of them by other means. This is not bad in any way and still way more healthy than not creating ketones at all and yes some will be used but very inefficiently 😉

barry hacklem says:

Sqze, makes sense, I’ve never claimed to know much about keto diets. Definitely probably the most natural diet a person could eat. No one is going to be getting domesticated hybridized fruits and starches in the wild. Greens, animals, insects, and if you’re lucky maybe some wild berries. Maybe some eggs if you stumble upon a nest.

Enigma Cipher says:

Sorry Mic but I have to give you a thumbs down on this one. I went keto on Nov 6th and lost 20lbs in the first month, I have before and after pics to prove it, never once restricted or even counted calories. While I am not on strict (20gr of carbs or less) keto at the moment since I am trying to put on more muscle mass (you are right about that point) I still eat high fat and I have never felt better.
Yes I did have one adverse reaction, my daily vitamin D3 would give me nausea for some unknown reason, easy fix, got my D3 from the sun.
Funny that you mention adverse effects because a strict vegan diet made me very ill, like not even functional for a whole month ill, yet on keto I was hitting the gym after 12hr days at work, so much for your argument there. Not calling you a liar, just saying that everyone is wired a little differently and I responded VERY well to keto, looking to try vegan keto for next time I cut.

justgivemethetruth says:

This video is so mixed up it jumbles everything and every term all together.
The issue with type-2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome, and its relatives,
heart disease, cancer, etc centers around sugar.

The vegans are in a strange relationship to this dynamic, because sugar is
essentially vegan, though no real responsible nutritionist recomments
eating a lot or any refined sugar, the fact is that most people, and most
vegans do eat a lot of sugar.

The keto, or paleo, or low carb people are saying eat less refined sugar
and carbs, no white sugar and white flour, and all of that … cut down on
REFINED carbs.

That is, you can eat meat and fats that are natural … not processed meats,
or fried foods etc and it will not cause damage.

Somehow vegans seem to think or be saying all you have to do to be
healthy is to avoid all animal products, and that is not true either.

I think these discussions are useless between vegans and carnivores.

max says:

@i Wonder what exactly are non-plant sources of sugar?

Los.A Chefs says:

+swimpanzee The only problem with that prior research is that like the studies conducted in 1949, these ‘Survey of Japanese People’s Diets’ you alluded to (and brought to my attention) weren’t specifically done on centenarians. Sure there may have been some at that time, but as shown in figure 1 on page six of this study http://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol25/7/25-7.pdf the number of centenarians didn’t start increasing significantly until the 1970’s and even more significantly until the 1990’s. This may be due to a number of things including but not limited to diet .

When you actually look at these earlier surveys, like you claim, sweet potatoes were a considerable portion of the diet of the “every day diet”. So I stand corrected to a degree, But only to a degree since as detailed further below, there were numerous festival days, so “festival day diets” were a large part of Okinawan diets. Okinawan sweet potatoes are also high in polyphenols. The diet in general was a medicinal diet, and pork was an essential component of this approach. They ate the entire pig including all the organs, fat and parts including joints (full of collagen). Fat (lard) was and is used for stir fries.

As noted in this overview http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.695.3883&rep=rep1&type=pdf :

“Pigs were first brought into the Ryukyus by Chinese immigrants in 1392, but they failed to become widespread because of a lack of food in the farms of the time.When sweet potatoes were introduced from Fukkien Province in
China, however, the practice of pig breeding spread rapidly, marking the beginning of the meat eating culture..”

Now regarding “festival day diets”, like you noted, pork and goat were consumed primarily at festivals. However, if you look at the number of festivals celebrated in the link I just provided, there were many festival days including numerous days for Festivals for ancestral spirits, Agricultural festivals, Festivals for Warding Off Evil Spirits, and Festivals of Foreign Gods. So, pork and goat may have not been frequently consumed as part of the “every day diet”, but pork and goat were consumed frequently as part of the “festival day diet.” So given the number of festival days that’s a lot of pork and goat being consumed throughout the year especially in January. February and March. So meat consumption wasn’t just once or twice a week or month. Meat consumption as part of “festival day diets” was a very frequent occurrence.

Nonetheless, as I noted previously above, increased longevity is a more recent phenomena. Plus what would also be interesting to see is data on the height of Okinawans in 1880 versus the height of Okinawans in 2010. Most older Japanese are traditionally short in comparison to other cultures. Though modern Japanese are taller than their ancestors. The difference isn’t genes, nope it’s the diet that contains more protein.

So, in other words, eating MORE animal protein (meat) may have been directly and partly responsible for the increase in Okinawan longevity as well as most likely an increase in Okinawan height. However, more refined carbs in the form of fast food and high glycemic carbs like rice have also increased the Okinawan rates of obesity. Using vegetable (soybean oil) oil is also obesogenic as this study notes http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0132672 This use of highly processed vegetable oils too is part of the modern American diets that have been more recently introduced to Okinawa post WW2.

Goldman Sachs says:

Couldn’t agree more. He talks a million miles an hour, disorganized, no medical credentials, etc. Just jumbled info. Blah.

Mike Tiemen says:

+Los.A Chefs That’s false. As the Willcox paper and other papers note they used to be the leanest people of Japan, now they’re the fattest. You, Stephen Zwick, aren’t lean either. Hint: it’s the diet.

All Blue Zones are plant-based, low-fat high-carb diets. Not just the Okinawan Blue Zone. You provide no biological plausibility whatsoever.

Whole plant-foods are always associated with better health whereas animal protein and fat are associated with higher mortality. Not just when looking at all five blue zones but even when looking at more homogeneous cohorts like those of Harvard. Have you completely missed the August edition of the Journal of the American Medical Association last year?

Christopher Stasney says:

+Los.A Chefs True, I used the word flesh instead of meat, but I’m not trying to argue about speciesism. Although, I can’t see how treating animals cruelly and killing them for our benefit is not exploitation. I’m genuinely curious about your answers because you seem rather informed, and you’re an former vegan.

dauði sigla says:

I constantly hear keto nutters, claiming fruit sugar is just as bad a regular sugar, and ups diabetes risk, and ups heart disease risk…..I think keto brain is a real thing….as in makes you an idiot….

Donner Party says:

“While fruits are recommended as a measure for diabetes prevention, previous studies have found mixed results for total fruit consumption. Our findings provide novel evidence suggesting that certain fruits may be especially beneficial for lowering diabetes risk,” said senior author [[Qi Sun]], assistant professor in the Department of Nutrition at HSPH and assistant professor at the Channing Division of Network Medicine, Brigham and Women’s Hospital.

Donner Party says:

certain fruits bonehead

Mayur Kedare says:

So yeah “lowering” diabetes risk, you should understand what he meant.

max says:

avocado is a fruit. ketoers love it.

AlexRuzhyo says:

max an average ever of avocados have two net carbs tho.

any way to turn notifications off for this?

The VeGAINator says:

Ketogenic diets is like crossfit.. it might seem cool and trendy… but its bad for you..

Michael DeRobio says:

Vegan can help diabetes, but few sane people want to be or are happy being vegan. If you want to actually help a lot of people and not just spout vegan religious dogma, keto is one VERY EFFECTIVE AND PROVEN method. Here is one (among many) study that shows that keto cures type 2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325029/

Kyle Ⓥ says:

Michael DeRobio The key word is “treat” not cure. Sure, if your body can’t handle carbs, you’ll see symptoms lessen if you don’t eat any, but how about treating the cause – intranyocellular lipid – I.e. high fat diet.

It’s like saying just not using a clogged drain fixes the drain. how about you unclog the damn drain, so you can use the damn sink?

Whole Food Plant Based diets treat the cause to cure the illness, not just mask symptoms. I’d rather cure my disease, rather than pretend it doesn’t exist.

Kyle Ⓥ says:

Michael DeRobio And, I know lots of happy, healthy, long term vegans. what nonsense!

The Intelligent Omnivore says:

Crossfit is what needs to be quit, not the diet.  Dangerous, energy system destroying, tendon tearing, injury producing fad.

Kombaiyashii says:

I tried a vegan keto diet. I felt so fucking ill it was unbelievable. I still can’t eat coconut oil to this day.

KindOld Geezer says:

Quality coconut oil is the very best purchased in a “glass jar” It doesn’t absorb the plastic chemicals. Usually all plastic contained coconut oils taste and absorb the plastic taste, nausea, toxicity, even female hormone like chemicals from the plastic. Well, this is what science, and my very own personal experience has showed me.

kat weaver says:

can you please tell me what vegan keto is ??? seems a bit of a contradiction to me.. or one cancelling out the other, either way, i am very curious to know what a keto vegan diet looks like..

KindOld Geezer says:

Maybe it is when I chisel down my “incisor” teeth, because they are in my mouth to eat meat. Then grind them flat, and chew on soy beans. Drink a cup of oil with it?

Liz Lee says:

If you are eating low carb, trying to get rid of candida overgrowth or yeast infections, have an eating disorder or cannot get enough 0mega 3 it is actually the best sources of fat. And it has topical applications. Let alone if you want a food thats cooked over 100 degrees. Even Olive Oil can oxidize in recipes.
However on a Vegan diet you should limit healthy fats to nuts and seeds and sprouts. But a spoon of coconut oil because it is tasteless and plant based is better then lard or PUFA that oxidize in your cabinet.
Eating of drink a spoon of oil not only nutritionally gives you a specific balance of oils, it disrupts mouth feel and makes one more conscious. It also cured my dry mouth in like 3 days.
If you are really worried about calories or sat fats…. at least try some oil pulling. That has a lot of the same benefits. Oil pulling is easier with cold coconut oil as it melts in your mouth.

Liz Lee says:

I think it would be rough. Like the Katniss Everdeen diet. But she cheats all the time. And has to steal bread for her boyfriend.
Broccoli and Coconut oil and peanuts. Low carb bread cooked into bricks without eggs. No fruit and like you stare at beans? No quinoa, no pseudo grains, no dairy. Would you have to eat every avocado on planet earth?

Flash Man says:

Millions of years of evolution and humans still have no clue what to stuff their stupid face with.

needmore tec says:

thanks i will..i am out for as much info as i can get…

rts says:

Flash Man because there’s no intelligence involved with evolution. what’d you expect?

rts says:

Flash Man that’s a stretch in logic, my friend.

Emiliana says:

Thank you! I was considering a vegan ketogenic diet for weightloss. It is uncommon but possible. Thx for clarifying that it is not a good choice

Sqze says:

And again you display your lack of knowledge…

The smartest thing to do is to go for a low carb high fat/or low glycemic approach when the infant is taken of breast-milk. And you have to understand that i am not talking about clinical ketosis as for cancer, epilepsy, autism, ADHD etc… a mild form of ketosis with a moderate to low intake of carbs. Going directly HIGH carb is like feeding it speed… not really a good idea.

http://ketosisdietmenu.com/blog/babies-thrive-under-a-ketogenic-metabolism/

And please understand that most who tries out some sort of ketogenic diet doesn’t really understand it, the part about food quality, most go to high protein not enough fat and fails thereby leaving the impression that its bad… this goes for a lot of doctors and dietitians to!

And please read the article before responding or do not respond at all 😉

Donner Party says:

it is a good choice…..see stanford study

Thủy Nguyễn says:

Sqze hahaha thanks I am running to feed my baby with meat and fat. I am so unknownedable. namaste

Sqze says:

I see you didn’t read the article… and you didn’t understand that its not about eating meat or not eating meat… have a nice weekend 😉

Thủy Nguyễn says:

🙂

Stine Olsen says:

My legs actually changed color when I was on this diet and I had really bad breath. I also gained everything and more back. Now that I am a high Carb vegan I feel really good.

Sqze says:

+Stine Olsen
Du you understand if i write in Danish or?
And do you still have a hard time staying weight stable?
I am asking because i used to be obese since childhood and have been weight stable at around 13/14% body fat for the last 3+ years so i just wanted to help out with some tips and tricks if you need it? 😉

Stine Olsen says:

Andrew Hoffman As I said, I didn’t stop the diet, I started gaining while I was still doing it.

Stine Olsen says:

Sqze yeah I understand Danish, and no I am losing weight now. Lost 10 kgs since November 🙂

Stine Olsen says:

Pescetarian Lol ok, bad day? 😛

Arvid says:

Wow this diet is so sad…

Arvid says:

+Muscle4LifeX It’s alright man. If you get cancer, you’re very welcome to do whatever it takes to get healthy. I know from statistics, that I won’t have to worry about cancer anytime soon.

And I never said, that being vegan is the ONLY way to cure anything (because sometimes traditional medicine also works, ya know), it’s just the least destructive way, to animals and to the environment.

If Keto actually cures cancer, then it’s totally fine. But it’s not a lifetime nourishment for the human species.

Cynthia B says:

A ketogenic diet must be moderate to low in protein, BTW. Its not a high protein diet, it is a high fat diet. Just sayin

Cynthia B says:

People in the western world arent ketogenic. Also, there isnt a single population in the world that is or has been vegan. Not even the okinawans.

Arvid says:

+Cynthia B Well there are different arts of veganism throughout our history. The Indian culture for example developed veganism by choice, when they had to start to save their environment from total destruction 2000 years ago and there are cultures, who were vegan by circumstances, because meat was not very easily obtainable. Currently, there are at least two mostly vegan populations, The Tarahumara in Mexico and two tiny islands in Okinawa (not the entire Okinawa islands). They may eat one fish a year or some insects here and there, but they are 94 to 99% vegan.

What I was talking about is, that we as a species are starch-based. That means that our main source of energy has always been grains, potatoes, beans, nuts and seed. The animal products were for most people a very rare thing throughout the history and only in the last century we managed to grow so much crops, that we could afford to feed over the half of it to animals, so we could eat lots of them.

And like in India 2000 years ago, the main cause of environmental destruction on the planet is the meat and dairy industry. Please do your research on that.

porkyo123 says:

Cynthia B They put that on the back burner along with junk food.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

I think it’s an important note that cholesterol will (almost) always, no exceptions (some minor exceptions), drop when you lose weight. Despite the diet. Weight-loss trials are not suitable to test the effects of diet on serum lipids.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6865775
In Phinney’s own research cholesterol shot up when no weight-loss was present. So how much does cholesterol increase on keto? We don’t know, they ended the study while cholesterol was still rising.

I think the minor things like the bad breath and keto rashes would be extremely unpleasant as well.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

You are obsessed about it.

Please learn to read. I said weight-loss affects biomarkers. Because YOU never show studies looking at hard end points. Like cancer progression, atherosclerotic plaque, cardiac events, mortality etc, only at short term changes in biomarkers.

You stopped linking to the studies too. Is there something in there you don’t want me to read? Show me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959866/table/T1/
Does this accurately represent your diet?
Again it’s just mice.
High saturated fat diet increases mortality in mice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24472284
Ketogenic diets make rats stupid. Paraphrasing obviously.
http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v55/n3/full/pr200478a.html
Again whenever I show animal studies you say they’re just animal studies. Yet all you have on cancer is animal studies. Not very impressive. Yet when blood samples were taken from the people on the vegan diet, their blood was eight times more effective at stopping cancer. Same was done in a study on women by James Barnard I believe, only intervention being the diet.
We ALSO have observational data showing vegans have a far lower risk of prostate cancer. We also have the Japanese data showing fish is significantly associated with prostate cancer, the Harvard studies showing eggs are and the meta-analyses showing milk is. Same with red and processed meats.
So you JUST having an animal study shows there isn’t any good proof keto helps.

Funny because in Volek’s own study keto increased CRP a marker for inflammation. So who says your diet is more anti-inflammatory than mine?

Five friends of mine did keto. They’re all dead now. Can we now stop BS anecdotes we cannot verify?

Sag Rotan says:

High saturated fat diet increases mortality in mice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24472284
Thats interesting but not keto, that means no BHB…none of its effects., in the similar study which I already showed you with C57BL/6 mice (the one phinney was talking about) with keto longevity increased, better motor function and cognition.

“Ketogenic diets make rats stupid. Paraphrasing obviously.
http://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v55/n3/full/pr200478a.html
Id agree with the author that a diet with just 8% protein during brain development might not be that smart…do you?
Same for human children that need to go on a extreme KD and to get ketones really high lack sufficient protein in their early life.

Novel ketone diet enhances physical and cognitive performance
Rats on the ketone diet ran 32% further on a treadmill […]Ketone-fed rats completed an 8-arm radial maze test 38% faster than did those on the other diets, making more correct decisions before making a mistake (P < 0.05). Isolated, perfused hearts from rats that were fed the ketone diet had greater free energy available from ATP hydrolysis during increased work than did hearts from rats on the other diets as shown by using [31P]-NMR spectroscopy. "https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3959866/table/T1/ Does this accurately represent your diet? " Interestingly all got the same but just different % and same protein. Those that got most milk fat and lard did best, similar to those that got high carb. But those that got medium amounts of fat and carb did much worse, aka SAD macro distribution. Why do you think that is? Effect of a ketogenic meal on cognitive function in elderly adults: potential for cognitive enhancement "Plasma levels of ketone bodies were successfully increased after intake of the ketogenic meal. The ketogenic meal was suggested to have positive effects on working memory, visual attention, and task switching in non-demented elderly."

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

I don’t agree. 8% of protein is just fine if you eat high-carb and don’t rely on protein for glyconeogenesis.

You’re again quoting without sources. You only throw back my links at me. Show me the one Phinney talked about then.

In humans no such effects are observed. Why not focus on human trials. Do you not agree that those are more important and better science? Animal studies have an important role in science as preliminary studies, I won’t deny that. Yet not much beyond that can be said.

Sag Rotan says:

when I give you the link to the study my message gets blocked…
search for “The influence of low carbohydrate and ketogenic diets on longevity and skeletal muscle
maintenance with ageing”
Since phinney had diagrams from that study I hope there will be soon a longer/full version.

“In humans no such effects are observed.”->
“The ketogenic meal was suggested to have positive effects on working memory, visual attention, and task switching in non-demented elderly.”
Effect of a ketogenic meal on cognitive function in elderly adults

Though from interviews with scientists it seems that VLC/ ketosis gets more advantagous with age, as glucose metabolism/ability to metabolize glucose decreases with age

this is intersting too”Very-low-carbohydrate diets and preservation of muscle mass”

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

+Sag Rotan Are you using pubmed links rather than the original medical journal? Pubmed links are almost never blocked.

Wait this hasn’t even been published?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27252308
In humans whole food carbohydrate is associated with a longer lifespan. As you can see in the Blue Zones? I’m not sure if you’re familiar with them. They all eat high-carb.
What do you make of the fact that low-carb humans always die younger? In different studies with varying amounts of protein. However, all five longest living groups eat high-carb plant-based. Ikaria, a Greek island where they eat probably the most fat out of all five Blue Zones in the form of olive oil rarely sees dementia and people tend to retain cognition into great age. Same in most other Blue Zones. Vegetarian SDAs have a three time lower risk of Alzheimer’s than their meat eating SDAs even though they’re all rather health conscious.

“A VLCARB is almost always relatively high in protein. There is evidence that high protein intake increases protein synthesis by increasing systemic amino acid availability [21], which is a potent stimulus of muscle protein synthesis [22]. During weight loss, higher protein intake reduces loss of muscle mass and increases loss of body fat [9].”
Again I don’t want to get back to this but people all too often say to me; “Listen Siegfried, I love you so very much and you’re by far the smartest and most good looking person I know, but low-carb diets are high-fat and not high-protein. So all of those studies on people eating low-carb high-protein do not apply to us.”
I just want to make the point once again. Their data is high-protein whether they openly acknowledge it or not.

i eat plants says:

MIKE, i love your videos man, thank you for all of the endless information.
*COULD YOU CONSIDER MAKING A VIDEO TALKING ABOUT ANTI-NUTRIENTS THIS TOPIC IS CAUSING A GREAT DEAL OF CONFUSION FOR MANY*
much love

Huai Li says:

+Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch
Study number 2 is just amazing, it blows my mind. They compared people on a standard American diet, who smoked, drank, and didn’t exercise, to vegans who didn’t smoke, didn’t drink, and exercised a lot. Lo and behold our shock when the vegans who exercised, didn’t smoke, and didn’t drink had healthier levels of LDL and TG! It must be the animal products! It has nothing to do with the fact that the “omnivores” ate ice-cream and cake all day, while sitting in front of the tv smoking and drinking.

This study has convinced me. I ought not exercise, abstain from alcohol, or cigarettes. I must abstain from animal products. I can sit in front of the tv all the live long day, smoking and drinking my heart out. As long as I don’t consume those pesky animal products, my heart will live FOREVER!

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

+Huai Li I did not include the link for the meat insulin claim.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14672862
It’s in there somewhere if you want to read it.
See, I failed to include the study, you pointed it out and I subsequently included it. I’m not trying to make claims without providing the needed evidence for them.

I’m glad that you admit FFA cause IR and type 2 Diabetes M.
You cannot draw conclusions from studies not designed for the things you mentioned.
On a high-fat diet that’s low in carbs FFA actually increase!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12654976

Now you say that vegans should view this as terrible news on Insulin Resistance? I know this is debunked by my previous link already but let’s look at it in some more detail.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24149445
Vegans have better insulin sensitivity. The same can be viewed among vegetarians.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16441925
regardless of age
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15940383
We know that high-carb diets are better for IS and preventing IR.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197103112841004
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2168124

However high-fat diets tend to increase IMCL and IR.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11679437
Especially saturated fat.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11317662

This supports the fact that low-carb diets are bad for the cardiovascular system. We already knew they negatively affect FMD a marker for artery function.
You sure like getting owned, don’t you?

PS since you can’t read.
1. They weren’t Americans.
2. Most meat eaters did not smoke.
3. Most meat eaters did exercise.

I challenge you to find a study of meat eaters with better lipid levels and to debunk all of the studies in my previous comment.

Huai Li says:

+Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch
Only one of us can’t read. Sad that being vegan damages one’s vision so badly. What I wrote is correct. The vegans exercised more, didn’t drink, and didn’t smoke. Those eating a crappy diet (don’t care if they’re American or not) did not exercise at the same proportion as the vegans, drank more, and smoked more. Why do vegans want to compare apples and oranges?

Yet when you look at the triglycerides and HDL levels of the others who ate animal products, they were about the same as the vegans. Since I don’t care about LDL, I see that animal products are not the culprit.

As for FFA and insulin resistance, if the study you posted says low-carb diets increase FFA, then you have posted two contradictory studies. One showed high-fat decreased FFA, and this other supposedly increased it. Which do you believe? You can’t believe both, they say completely different things. And I also have studies that show a vegan diet can make triglycerides sky-rocket. But you won’t believe that one, it contradicts your faith (it’s an Ornish study 🙂 )

I just found your study interesting, considering it contradicts everything you believe. Let me guess: every part that agrees with what you already believe must be true, but the rest is false. That’s why I don’t feed trolls. But thanks for the study, I’ll gladly use it against vegans in the future. Watching the cognitive dissonance makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Siegfried Furtwängler Knappertsbusch says:

+Huai Li If you could read, which you can’t. You would read that I was comparing the vegan group to his keto group, not to the meat group included in the study. Oops!

“2. On average vegans have an LDL level of 69.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17364116
Your keto diets had much higher LDL despite their weight loss.”
Can you please explain to me which part of this you fail to read?

You don’t care about LDL? Call Harvard! Call the American Medical Association! All of these medical authorities care about it but I’m sure they won’t after they learn a random guy on youtube doesn’t care! Great argument. 5/7

I don’t care about triglycerides. Nah, kidding. I’m not going to make a fool out of myself like you have. You could see in my study that vegans have studies well within the recommended range. Oh, please tell me! Is it the Ornish study in which they reversed heart disease? I’m sure they suffered greatly from their triglycerides while their heart disease was reversing. Even though triglycerides went back down after a while.

I’m sure it makes you warm as you cannot read. My quote is not ambiguous in any way, yet you failed to understand such a simple thing. High-fat diets impair cognitive function, you’re living proof that this is long term. Meanwhile vegans live longer and low-carbers die younger. Which of those do you prefer? I know which I prefer.

chubby Chuck says:

you can do a ketogenic diet as a vegan some vegan bodybuilders do it

Shane Gagiano says:

Exactly.

Coconut oil, nuts, and all the leafy green vegetables. Not fruit though. In this example, coconut oil would be your best fuel source as it is a MCT.

Shane Gagiano says:

If you have Diabetes I, then yes, proceed with caution.

If not, then you have a functioning pancreas and keto on! Ketoacidosis is not in your future.

I’ve been on the ketogenic lifestyle for 7 years now, and it’s amazing.

Donner Party says:

Not proceed with caution if type two diabetic and works also for type 1 with some monitoring of low blood sugars…………..full speed ahead of type 2……………fasting and keto to reverse insulin resistance

Shane Gagiano says:

+Donner Party … Yeah, if you’re type II, then you’re fine.

Leon Josef says:

Wonder what Vegetable Police thinks :p

Pescetarian says:

Janu, It might be a concern if I was an eleven year old boy on a keto diet for seizures. Wow is that all you can find as a vegan scare tactic. So lame.

jannu jokunen says:

The fact that people have died from it, highlights the extremity of the diet. And as there really is no benefits from it that you could not get from normal healthy diets, it makes it’s pretty pointless unless you suffer from epilepsy. Then it’s matter of weighing in the risks & rewards, and as epilepsy is a really serious thing. People are willing to go to extremes to deal with it.

Most of the studies say that with careful planning and monitoring it’s possible to pull of keto diet, but why do it if you haven’t got epilepsy?

This is a diet that has lots of known side effects:

“Are there any side effects?
A person starting the ketogenic diet may feel sluggish for a few days after the diet is started. This can worsen if a child is sick at the same time as the diet is started.
Make sure to encourage carbohydrate-free fluids during illnesses.
Other side effects that might occur if the person stays on the diet for a long time are:
Kidney stones
High cholesterol levels in the blood
Dehydration
Constipation
Slowed growth or weight gain
Bone fractures”

http://www.epilepsy.com/learn/treating-seizures-and-epilepsy/dietary-therapies/ketogenic-diet

jannu jokunen says:

“It might be a concern if I was an eleven year old boy on a keto diet for seizures.” This is also a weird statement, does age and seizures somehow affect the way keto diet works on humans?

IAmAgainst says:

Jannu jokunen An 11yo kid with epilepsy has far more chances of dying from anything than a healthy person. Someone eating keto and dying is not the same as saying “died _because_ of keto”. Following your logic, everybody dies because of high carb diets.

jannu jokunen says:

I think you need to first read the studies, and then try to be the smart person. As now you are just sounding like an idiot who did not read the study that said the two kids died from selenium deficiency caused by the keto diet.

Selenium-deficiency cardiomyopathy is known problem in keto diets.

“Selenium-deficiency cardiomyopathy is a known secondary complication from long-term treatment with a ketogenic diet for medical refractory epilepsy. Our patient, a 5-year-old boy on a ketogenic diet for intractable seizures, had a normal selenium level before starting the diet, but he shortly thereafter developed acute reversible cardiomyopathy and ventricular tachycardia, which was unmasked during a hospitalization for an elective operative procedure. ”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22367552